The official report into the child abuse scandal in Rochdale highlights once again the abject failure of both Greater Manchester Police (GMP) and Rochdale council.
Absolutely agree with what you say here, dear Leyla. And these are not comfortable things to say, and there are still too many people who will react with hate if such things are said to them
I read that most of the grooming gang criminals were from an area in PoK Kashmir called Mirpur. If so, the UK needs to ban all immigration from that town. I also read Pakistani blogs saying Mirpuris have a bad reputation in Pakistan. So if even Pakistan can't stand them, why should the UK? Have any of the families, friends, acquaintaces, etc of the criminals came out publicly to denounce them? After being released from their sentences were they able to return to their homes, families, neighborhoods or were they run out?
I think most of them are still in the UK. I haven’t heard any wives announcing their husbands, despite the fact that most of the men were married. I guess they would be repercussions if they spoke out, both from the husband, and from the community. I think that with crimes of this severity offenders should simply be sent back as soon as their sentence is served. If we could guarantee that they would be imprisoned in Pakistan, I would even be in favour of sending them back to serve their sentences there.
Difficult to ban everyone from one area, because there will inevitably be people who live there who are horrified by the behaviour of the criminals there. They might make very good British citizens, wanting to work and integrate and abide by the law and pay tax. But I do think we have to think about who we let in. Many of these men did not have skilled jobs. I question the value of allowing unskilled people into the country. We need skilled migrants, from carers to doctors, but we don’t really need more unskilled ones. The real problem, though is that these men were not integrated into British culture, they didn’t recognise the rights of the young girls they abused. Unfortunately, this is something people can lie about when they apply to enter a country, they can recognise the rights of women and minorities on paper but be hiding misogyny, homophobia, racism, anti-Semitism. It’s a conundrum.
" The real problem, though is that these men were not integrated into British culture, they didn’t recognise the rights of the young girls they abused."
I assume they couldn't be integrated even if they were trained to. Cultural impressions run very deep in the psyche. But what I don't understand is this: Islam is "having a moment" right now with various internet "influencers" either converting to it or saying nice things about it. Muslim internet influencers are all over the place claming that "Islam can solve all the problems of western civilizations". Usually when they say that they're talking about Feminism, LGBTQ and "wokeism". These Muslims are positioning themselves as adjacent to western conservative values, whereas in previous decades the grift was to position themselves as adjacent to western liberal values. But anyway, to get back to my point - with all this being understood, why aren't Muslims in the UK being very vocal about denouncing the activities of these criminals and holding them accountable? Or are they? I've not seen any clips of imams in mosques saying, "this is sa problem and we are going to help solve it because Islam solves all problems".
I haven’t either. I think we have quite a few excellent journalists, who are ex Muslim or secular Muslim. And I think there are one or two good imams who make a point of denouncing violence. But in many instances people are frightened. Look at how the life of a teacher can be ruined, simply by showing a depiction of Mohammed. Not criticising him, not criticising the religion, simply showing the picture.
Whereas if you criticise Christianity or Judaism, you run the risk only of receiving angry messages, if you criticise Islam or its tenets (which include saying that beating your wife in marriage is okay), the risk is death. Remember that heroic Ahmadi Muslim shopkeeper in Glasgow, who was murdered by someone who drove up from the north of England to kill him, simply because he wished his customers a happy Christmas. That is the level of criminality we are dealing with.
The answer has to be education. We need to ensure that all schools teach tolerance and equal rights. I don’t think religious schools should exist.
" Remember that heroic Ahmadi Muslim shopkeeper in Glasgow, who was murdered by someone who drove up from the north of England to kill him, simply because he wished his customers a happy Christmas. That is the level of criminality we are dealing with."
What?!?! Never heard of that. We don'thave these problems with Muslims in the USA.
Last year in a college art class the professor "warned" her students that in the next class of "Islamic Art" some medieval images of Mohammed will be shown and that if any student did not want to see them due to religious reasons, they could excuse themselves from the class. Well, one of the Muslim students did not excuse herself and then later cried Islamophobia and tried to get that professor fired. Now mind you, this was "Islamic Art" which means the painting of Mohammed was done by a medieval Muslim artist but somehow it was "Islamophobia". The professor respected that some Muslims do not depict Mohammed and are offended by it and so she gave a "warning" and option for leaving, but somehow that too was "Islamophobic".
I remember resding about that case, or a similar one. What happened to the professor?
I think acceptance of free speech, which is everything legal (ie not libel) should be enacted by the law. A recent case saw a hord of angry fundsmentalists stand shouting outside a school every day. Most of them were not even parents of children at the school. They should simply have been arrested and fined heftily. And told that accepting free-speech is a condition of living in this country.
Absolutely agree with what you say here, dear Leyla. And these are not comfortable things to say, and there are still too many people who will react with hate if such things are said to them
Thank you x
I read that most of the grooming gang criminals were from an area in PoK Kashmir called Mirpur. If so, the UK needs to ban all immigration from that town. I also read Pakistani blogs saying Mirpuris have a bad reputation in Pakistan. So if even Pakistan can't stand them, why should the UK? Have any of the families, friends, acquaintaces, etc of the criminals came out publicly to denounce them? After being released from their sentences were they able to return to their homes, families, neighborhoods or were they run out?
I think most of them are still in the UK. I haven’t heard any wives announcing their husbands, despite the fact that most of the men were married. I guess they would be repercussions if they spoke out, both from the husband, and from the community. I think that with crimes of this severity offenders should simply be sent back as soon as their sentence is served. If we could guarantee that they would be imprisoned in Pakistan, I would even be in favour of sending them back to serve their sentences there.
Difficult to ban everyone from one area, because there will inevitably be people who live there who are horrified by the behaviour of the criminals there. They might make very good British citizens, wanting to work and integrate and abide by the law and pay tax. But I do think we have to think about who we let in. Many of these men did not have skilled jobs. I question the value of allowing unskilled people into the country. We need skilled migrants, from carers to doctors, but we don’t really need more unskilled ones. The real problem, though is that these men were not integrated into British culture, they didn’t recognise the rights of the young girls they abused. Unfortunately, this is something people can lie about when they apply to enter a country, they can recognise the rights of women and minorities on paper but be hiding misogyny, homophobia, racism, anti-Semitism. It’s a conundrum.
" The real problem, though is that these men were not integrated into British culture, they didn’t recognise the rights of the young girls they abused."
I assume they couldn't be integrated even if they were trained to. Cultural impressions run very deep in the psyche. But what I don't understand is this: Islam is "having a moment" right now with various internet "influencers" either converting to it or saying nice things about it. Muslim internet influencers are all over the place claming that "Islam can solve all the problems of western civilizations". Usually when they say that they're talking about Feminism, LGBTQ and "wokeism". These Muslims are positioning themselves as adjacent to western conservative values, whereas in previous decades the grift was to position themselves as adjacent to western liberal values. But anyway, to get back to my point - with all this being understood, why aren't Muslims in the UK being very vocal about denouncing the activities of these criminals and holding them accountable? Or are they? I've not seen any clips of imams in mosques saying, "this is sa problem and we are going to help solve it because Islam solves all problems".
I haven’t either. I think we have quite a few excellent journalists, who are ex Muslim or secular Muslim. And I think there are one or two good imams who make a point of denouncing violence. But in many instances people are frightened. Look at how the life of a teacher can be ruined, simply by showing a depiction of Mohammed. Not criticising him, not criticising the religion, simply showing the picture.
Whereas if you criticise Christianity or Judaism, you run the risk only of receiving angry messages, if you criticise Islam or its tenets (which include saying that beating your wife in marriage is okay), the risk is death. Remember that heroic Ahmadi Muslim shopkeeper in Glasgow, who was murdered by someone who drove up from the north of England to kill him, simply because he wished his customers a happy Christmas. That is the level of criminality we are dealing with.
The answer has to be education. We need to ensure that all schools teach tolerance and equal rights. I don’t think religious schools should exist.
" Remember that heroic Ahmadi Muslim shopkeeper in Glasgow, who was murdered by someone who drove up from the north of England to kill him, simply because he wished his customers a happy Christmas. That is the level of criminality we are dealing with."
What?!?! Never heard of that. We don'thave these problems with Muslims in the USA.
Last year in a college art class the professor "warned" her students that in the next class of "Islamic Art" some medieval images of Mohammed will be shown and that if any student did not want to see them due to religious reasons, they could excuse themselves from the class. Well, one of the Muslim students did not excuse herself and then later cried Islamophobia and tried to get that professor fired. Now mind you, this was "Islamic Art" which means the painting of Mohammed was done by a medieval Muslim artist but somehow it was "Islamophobia". The professor respected that some Muslims do not depict Mohammed and are offended by it and so she gave a "warning" and option for leaving, but somehow that too was "Islamophobic".
I remember resding about that case, or a similar one. What happened to the professor?
I think acceptance of free speech, which is everything legal (ie not libel) should be enacted by the law. A recent case saw a hord of angry fundsmentalists stand shouting outside a school every day. Most of them were not even parents of children at the school. They should simply have been arrested and fined heftily. And told that accepting free-speech is a condition of living in this country.
They claim there is porn in school library books.
Ugh. They should be taken to task for spreading lies. And anyone who makes a death threat should be prosecuted.